Bob Last, producer & Jamie Byng, MD of Canongate in conversation with Small is Beautiful co-producer Roanne Dods
For the next talk of the day, Roanne Dods interviewed Bob Last and Jamie Byng about the nature of work, motivation, and the way that businesses grow, change and morph over time.
"Digital is blurring the boundaries between elements in the arts, so the need to morph is more crucial than ever, to remain true to the thing you're working on" – Jamie Byng
On Measuring Success
For Jamie, sometimes it's picking up the finished book. Or it can be selling Estonian rights for one book, or worldwide rights for another. Ultimately, he finds the word "success" irrelevant.
Bob sees himself as an enabler. His curiosity allows him to rethink what he might do, too.
On Integrity
Bob: "Integrity isn't something you seek, it's something others see in you and label you with, which can be a drag. It's an unhelpful straightjacket. But if I understand integrity at all, it's about a project having it's own internal dynamic that is pursued in the most uncompromising way, which very often ends up being the most commercial because it's compelling."
Jamie: "I'm more interested in irreverence and sincerity than integrity. Avoiding cynicism. If you're overly focussed on the market you're more likely to do it for cynical reasons. That's were you run the risk of the whole thing falling apart. We've only got so much time on this planet, you may as well do the thing you love."
On the moments of success that keep you going
Jamie: "At the Hay Festival, we did these events that came out of two books I was involved in, we gathered people to perform letters from this book. Seeing Benedict Cumberbatch and others perform them to 1700+ people in a tent, that was something we'd been moving towards – and we nailed it. That gave us a lot of confidence to push boundaries, as people who make stuff happen that's worthwhile. It's like DJing: I love seeing the impact playing records to people has."
Words of advice for people starting up and wanting to hang onto that grit?
Bob: "Moments where externally you're told something has been successful. I'm restless for about a nanosecond before tackling the next thing. It is always going to be like that. You're going to be restless and you're going to need that. It's a journey with no end. There's not a place you can aim to go to (and finish). I personally set out that way and was oblivious to it, then I had to understand it."
Jamie: "Whatever you do, just stay calm. Be excited but stay calm, there's only one thing you can ever do at a time. Be careful and thoughtful about how you deal with the many challenges that come your way. Have the confidence that you're doing something that matters. Be curious about meeting people and talking to people. Collaborative nature is so crucial. Always be kind. Always be honest."
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Watch their conversation in full:
Bob Last & Jamie Byng from Small is Beautiful on Vimeo.
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Here's more from the conversation with Bob Last and Jamie Byng through our Twitter live feed!
While researching, Bob Last found that freedom was a key missing feature for creative people who went on to start small business. #smallisb
— Small is Beautiful (@SmallisB) June 4, 2014
.@baddabyng finds the word 'work' irrelevant. "It's filled with negative connotations." #smallisb — Small is Beautiful (@SmallisB) June 4, 2014
Bob Last and @baddabyng now on stage with @roannedods #inspiration #smallisb pic.twitter.com/SELfV7AYup
— Emma Mortimore (@ZuzuEmma) June 4, 2014
Bob Last & Jamie Byng talking about motivation and the nature of work. Why do what you do? #smallisb #answersonatweetcard — Steve L'Awesome (@solobasssteve) June 4, 2014
Bob Last says he sees himself as an enabler. His curiosity about what others are doing allows him to rethink what he might do too. #smallisb
— Small is Beautiful (@SmallisB) June 4, 2014
"Digital is blurring the boundaries between where one thing begins & another ends. The need to morph is crucial." @baddabyng #smallisb — Small is Beautiful (@SmallisB) June 4, 2014
Q: Where does integrity come in? A: @baddabyng – Hopefully you've got judgement to discern what's quality and what's derivative. #smallisb
— Small is Beautiful (@SmallisB) June 4, 2014
Bob: Integrity not something you go out & seek, but something others label you as having. The uncompromised pursuit of dynamic. #smallisb — Small is Beautiful (@SmallisB) June 4, 2014
.@baddabyng: I'm more interested in being irreverent than having integrity. Doing what I love has always been what motivates me. #smallisb
— Small is Beautiful (@SmallisB) June 4, 2014
'you've only got so much time on the planet, you may as well do the thing you love' - @baddabyng #smallisb — Steve L'Awesome (@solobasssteve) June 4, 2014
Like the idea of flexibility and morphing. Exactly what I offer - tailored marketing which adapts to the project I'm working #smallisb
— Emma Mortimore (@ZuzuEmma) June 4, 2014
Great conversation with Bob a Last and Jamie Byng- talking morphing, curiosity, the driver to create, to have a kind of influence #smallisb — Gill Nicol (@lightsgoingon) June 4, 2014
Bob: Money is a tool, but you can't use it as a tool if you're ambivalent about it. #smallisb
— Small is Beautiful (@SmallisB) June 4, 2014
Financial stability allows us to focus on much longer-term projects. -- @badabyng #smallisb — Tara Gentile (@taragentile) June 4, 2014
Always be curious, kind and honest in all the business you do and if you get those fundamentals right you can't go wrong #smallisb
— Anna Franks (@annafranks1) June 4, 2014